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Debate: Evolution

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Revision as of 18:57, 14 January 2010 (edit)
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(Con)
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Revision as of 19:01, 14 January 2010 (edit)
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(separating into separate issues)
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*"No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe" appears to be a point to tie in the inception of the universe with evolution. These two scientific inquiries are only marginally related. For example, The Big Bang, and whether it is true or not has nothing to do with the validity of evolution. If we'd like to discuss that issue it should be in another debate. I'd suggest [[Debate: Big Bang]] *"No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe" appears to be a point to tie in the inception of the universe with evolution. These two scientific inquiries are only marginally related. For example, The Big Bang, and whether it is true or not has nothing to do with the validity of evolution. If we'd like to discuss that issue it should be in another debate. I'd suggest [[Debate: Big Bang]]
-*"No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal." - There are hundreds of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil "transitional fossils"], here is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils a list]. Exactly how many fossils does someone need to find that are "transitional" before this is acceptable? If you don't want to look through the long list I point to the VERY notable example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils#Dinosaurs_to_birds dinosaurs to birds]. 
-*"In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during recorded history, but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?" - The length of time that life has existed on earth is VERY VERY much more then the length of time there has been recorded history. Compare about ~3,500,000,000 to ~10,000. They are VERY different things. BUT if you need something an easy example is [http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/polyploidy.html plant polyploidy]. There has also been speciation (or, in other words, "evolution") in fruit flies in a controlled experimental setting. 
-*You have to define "major variation", and if you mean speciation, it's because it takes MANY generations. The fact is that cats+dogs+mice+cows simply have too long of a gestation and life-span for us to have watched them evolve in a controlled setting. We're talking '''thousands''' of generations, that is just impossible to do with those particular lifeforms. But as said above, it has been done in other lifeforms with much shorter lifespans. 
-*"Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years?" - taking 10 seconds and one picture I see that it's not really that flat at all: [http://www.twu.ca/life/ministries/gps/global/fall/phoenix/grand-canyon.jpg]. In terms of the grand canyon, obviously there has been erosion, it's well accepted that the canyon itself was formed by the erosion due to the Colorado River. 
|WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Pro" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE width="45%" bgcolor="#F2FAFB" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em;"| |WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Pro" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE width="45%" bgcolor="#F2FAFB" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em;"|
====Con==== ====Con====
*No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe. *No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe.
-*No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal. In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during '''recorded history''', but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?  
-*We have been doing tests on mice and rabbits and whatever have you. We have been breading cats & dogs & cows etc, but what we see as end product is still mice and rabbits and cats and dogs and cows etc. Why is it we have not observed a single major variation?  
-*Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years? 
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-===Write Subquestion here...===+=== "Transitional" Species ===
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''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here'' ''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
- +*"No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal." - There are hundreds of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil "transitional fossils"], here is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils a list]. Exactly how many fossils does someone need to find that are "transitional" before this is acceptable? If you don't want to look through the long list I point to the VERY notable example of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils#Dinosaurs_to_birds dinosaurs to birds].
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''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here'' ''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
- +*No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal. In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during '''recorded history''', but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?
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''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here'' ''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
 +*"In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during recorded history, but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?" - The length of time that life has existed on earth is VERY VERY much more then the length of time there has been recorded history. Compare about ~3,500,000,000 to ~10,000. They are VERY different things. BUT if you need something an easy example is [http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/polyploidy.html plant polyploidy]. There has also been speciation (or, in other words, "evolution") in fruit flies in a controlled experimental setting.
 +*You have to define "major variation", and if you mean speciation, it's because it takes MANY generations. The fact is that cats+dogs+mice+cows simply have too long of a gestation and life-span for us to have watched them evolve in a controlled setting. We're talking '''thousands''' of generations, that is just impossible to do with those particular lifeforms. But as said above, it has been done in other lifeforms with much shorter lifespans.
 +|WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Pro" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE width="45%" bgcolor="#F2FAFB" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em;"|
 +====Con====
 +''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
 +*We have been doing tests on mice and rabbits and whatever have you. We have been breading cats & dogs & cows etc, but what we see as end product is still mice and rabbits and cats and dogs and cows etc. Why is it we have not observed a single major variation?
 +|-
 +|WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Con" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE colspan="2" width="45%" bgcolor="#F2F2F2" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em ;"|
 +=== Geological Column ===
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 +|WRITE SUBQUESTION BETWEEN "=== ===" width="45%" bgcolor="#FFFAE0" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top:0.5em;"|
 +====Pro====
 +''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
 +
 +*"Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years?" - taking 10 seconds and one picture I see that it's not really that flat at all: [http://www.twu.ca/life/ministries/gps/global/fall/phoenix/grand-canyon.jpg]. In terms of the grand canyon, obviously there has been erosion, it's well accepted that the canyon itself was formed by the erosion due to the Colorado River.
|WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Pro" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE width="45%" bgcolor="#F2FAFB" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em;"| |WRITE CONTENT FOR THE "Pro" BOX ABOVE THIS CODE width="45%" bgcolor="#F2FAFB" style="border:1px solid #BAC5FD;padding:.4em;padding-top: 0.5em;"|
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''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here'' ''Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here''
 +*Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years?

Revision as of 19:01, 14 January 2010

Is evolution fact or fiction?

Background and context

I would like to have a discussion debate about evolution, without making it a battle such as "Religion Vs. Science". I'd like the format of this debate to be more logical and less emotional. After all isn't that what we proud ourselves with being as humans, inteligent & rational beings? So let us be it! Let's look at evolution from a logical, rational & scientific view point. Let's be critical and demand observable and indisputable proof in order to substantiate our ideas.

Regarding the Age of the universe

Pro

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • "No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe" appears to be a point to tie in the inception of the universe with evolution. These two scientific inquiries are only marginally related. For example, The Big Bang, and whether it is true or not has nothing to do with the validity of evolution. If we'd like to discuss that issue it should be in another debate. I'd suggest Debate: Big Bang

Con

  • No real proof at all regarding the age of the universe.

"Transitional" Species

Pro

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • "No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal." - There are hundreds of "transitional fossils", here is a list. Exactly how many fossils does someone need to find that are "transitional" before this is acceptable? If you don't want to look through the long list I point to the VERY notable example of dinosaurs to birds.

Con

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • No real proof of an animal ever changing into a different kind of animal. In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during recorded history, but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?


"Transitional" species

Pro

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • "In fact, we know of hundreds if not thousands of species that have become extinct during recorded history, but how many animals do we know of, that have evolved during the same period?" - The length of time that life has existed on earth is VERY VERY much more then the length of time there has been recorded history. Compare about ~3,500,000,000 to ~10,000. They are VERY different things. BUT if you need something an easy example is plant polyploidy. There has also been speciation (or, in other words, "evolution") in fruit flies in a controlled experimental setting.
  • You have to define "major variation", and if you mean speciation, it's because it takes MANY generations. The fact is that cats+dogs+mice+cows simply have too long of a gestation and life-span for us to have watched them evolve in a controlled setting. We're talking thousands of generations, that is just impossible to do with those particular lifeforms. But as said above, it has been done in other lifeforms with much shorter lifespans.

Con

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • We have been doing tests on mice and rabbits and whatever have you. We have been breading cats & dogs & cows etc, but what we see as end product is still mice and rabbits and cats and dogs and cows etc. Why is it we have not observed a single major variation?

Geological Column

Pro

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • "Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years?" - taking 10 seconds and one picture I see that it's not really that flat at all: [1]. In terms of the grand canyon, obviously there has been erosion, it's well accepted that the canyon itself was formed by the erosion due to the Colorado River.

Con

Click on the pencil icon and research and write arguments here

  • Geologic column is just impossible to explain. Why is it the layers in for example Grand Canyon, are virtually flat! Was there no erosion for millions and millions and millions of years?




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